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Poster: dark.starz Date: Sep 22, 2012 6:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Without checking the database i'd say 40 or so.

http://www.dead.net/features/jam-week/september-21-september-27-2012

St. Louis December 10th, 1971

Truckin -> Drums -> The Other One -> SOTOTW 30 seconds (lame reel change) -> The Other One -> NFA -> China Cat Riff -> GDTRFB -> NFA > Saturday Night


Were they not the inspiration for the Bruce & Vinny concept?

Photobucket



This post was modified by dark.starz on 2012-09-22 13:53:23

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 21, 2012 8:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Were they not the basis for the Bruce & Vinny concept? NOPE!

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 21, 2012 9:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Pig and TC came first anyway.

Double drummers, double keyboard players ...

Were the Dead not the basis for the Foreigner song "Double Vision"? (Kidding kidding.)

Different reasons in each circumstance, I gather. Pig-TC for greater breadth/experimentation (plus he was Phil's friend and why not); Pig-Keith cuz Pig was sick and just couldn't handle it, and also the tai ching told them that Donna would come along and give endless entertainment to generations of curmudgeonly Deadheads; Bruce-Vince cuz ... umm ... they sometimes came to their senses? No, I guess it was cuz Bruce never wanted to join officially and he was breaking Vince in and then sometimes just played anyway. Or something.

What percentage of the Keith-Pig shows were they really playing "together," with Keith on piano and Pig on organ? They did during late '71 and E72, but I don't have a sense of how much of that time they were both onstage ... everyone else was always onstage, but was Pig just on some of the time?

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 22, 2012 2:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

" Bruce never wanted to join officially" ....the way i understand it , is that Bruce's record contract obligations at the time would not allow him to become an "official" member , though i could be wrong!

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 22, 2012 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

That is correct. Also, he just had twin boys at the time.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 22, 2012 3:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Maybe it said something like "you are not allowed to become the official keyboard player of any band whose keyboard players are under a curse."

I guess my impression is mainly based on McNally's account, but all I can really find is "(Garcia and Lesh) invited him to join the band. But Hornsby had a booming solo career, and while happy to fill in, was reluctant to commit completely. In Dead fashion the band decided to include Bruce where and when available, but also search for a permanent new keyboard player." (584)

Then there's a mention of Bruce visiting home during spring tour '92 and his newborn twins not recognizing him. "By that time, he felt 'Vinny had really figured it out,' and that his job as a bridge from Brent to Vince was complete." (591)

McNally is generally pretty cursory, though. Great "book of record," time-and-date-wise, and perhaps inevitable for such a thick tome, but he seems to be very much skimming the surface and trying his best to be a kind of modern diplomat ... e.g., to say things, but not too much, and with a p.r. spin. (He was their p.r. guy, after all.) That last statement ("his job as a bridge") reads like spin to me.

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2012-09-22 10:19:02

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 22, 2012 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

There is also a story(Macnally's book I think) that states after one too many issues on the spring 90 tour with Brent and his "issues" Garcia was ready to give him the boot and asked Hornsby to join then. He felt uncomfortable about that and supposedly did not accept.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 23, 2012 2:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

i dont take anything that McNally says to the bank... that is his version of the story and usually has very little to back it!!! he is a rumor in his own mind. his recollection is , well, HIS recollection.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 23, 2012 5:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

It's a pretty thoroughly researched book. McNally has a PhD in history from U Mass; I don't get the impression he was going just on rumors and his own recollections.

I'd take it to the bank but wouldn't gamble the house on it, if that makes sense. That's mainly cuz I think it includes so much it can't possibly get deeply into much of anything, and also cuz he gives the polite version of everything. (Or, the politest believable.) Which I might do too, and which is one legitimate perspective among a gazillion. But I always get the sense of a whole lot left unsaid there.

Maybe history just needs to be told Roshemon-style.

Anyway, since I've got the book right by me today, here goes:

"As far back as the previous Christmas [1989], when Brent had overdosed, Garcia put in a call to his friend, the pianist, singer and composer Bruce Hrosnby, thinking of him as a possible replacement." (584)

Sounds reasonable. The guy overdoses; maybe he's going to be in rehab or quitting or whatever. Or maybe Garcia just thought about making that call, and told McNally (or someone) later that he did. Or something else. Who knows.



This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2012-09-23 12:33:03

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 23, 2012 8:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

So did Jerry make any calls about replacing himself?

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Sep 22, 2012 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

They (GD Productions) put a watchdog on Brent during the Summer 90 tour which probably escalated his personal desire to return to the comfort of his home in Lafayette after the Tinley Park July 23rd performance only to wind up dead on the 26th.

If you watch the View From The Vault Three Rivers Stadium July 8th, 1990 DVD just before Minglewood begins, Brent leaves his keyboard and walks over to Jerry, the conversation looks something like this;

"Jer, i'm dying here can you hook me up at halftime" Garcia appears a bit agitated and replies "sorry man, can't help you".

When the second set begins, Brent looks more than comfortably medicated. Sad loss indeed!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 23, 2012 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

My god you are full of shit.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 22, 2012 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

interesting.... thx for that.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Sep 21, 2012 8:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

RBNW, my most valued friend. Could you possibly consider for one moment that the two keyboard player concept implemented in late 1990 was an inspiration from the two keyboard player past aka Pig & Keith?

Now, back to the original question, how many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

The Pig/Weir vocal riffs on the NFA chorus are epic w/Jerome weighing in on lead guitar.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 22, 2012 2:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

um.....let me think about that .......

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 22, 2012 2:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

NOPE

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Sep 22, 2012 5:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Dec. '71--May 72, all shows. Plus Pig and T.C. never played in tandem. They had only one keyboard. Pig played percussion, sat out, or took over on a few songs such as DDHNM.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 22, 2012 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Really? (Goes to show how much I know.) So, dumb question I'm sure, but were there particular tunes that were always TC and other ones that were always Pig (on keyboard)?

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 22, 2012 7:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

I thought TC played on all tunes when he was there. This is the first I've heard that Pig still played on some like DDHNM. Ghostofpig would know, but that's a bit of lost history there!

They did have two organs briefly - both played for a few shows in fall '68 after TC joined, and apparently for a few shows later in fall '69.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Sep 23, 2012 5:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

This is the first I've heard that Pig still played on some like DDHNM

cf. liner notes, LIVE/DEAD. I guess they preferred his blues sound. Pig also played on several post 68 Alligators.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 23, 2012 6:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Hmm, you're right. Another Pigpen performance hiding in plain sight!
That DDHNM came from 3/2/69... I wonder if, every time they played it, TC stepped aside & Pigpen played? It warrants more investigation...

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Sep 24, 2012 5:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Everytime I saw it--which wasn't that often as they usually ended with Lovelight. I think the concept was to ensure that the evening ended with Pig onstage one way or another.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Sep 22, 2012 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

TC and me several days ago - what was your TC question?

TC_and_me.jpg

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Poster: mcglone Date: Sep 22, 2012 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

why doesn't he grow his bangs out?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 22, 2012 9:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How many shows did Keith and Pig perform together?

Nice! Well, I guess I'd have several.

1) What do you think of Scientology now?

2) Your hair is great. Do you ever look in the mirror in the morning and think, "Geez I'd look like your basic old geezer with a haircut. I'm so glad I look like some old shaman instead"?

3) Tell me your favorite Grateful Dead story. Except that he'd probably be (a) sick of doing that, and (b) wouldn't talk to me after the first two questions.

Seriously, Monte, that's very cool.


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